i have an uncle who is in a fish and gaming club in connecticut close to newtown. he does it because it's social -- >> and they're harmless people. >> he likes to go out, have a few beers, and talk to his buddies. >> it's like bowling. >> playing basketball for me. it's cultural. but we have to get beyond it. chuck is right, the idea that it's either we take every gun away or we do nothing to restrict this, the idea we can't have a reasonable debate in this country where there's -- >> manchin may have started this morning saying he's -- chuck, you said this conversation isn't going anywhere unless it includes the second amendment concerned people. >> i think you have to have them involved. not only that, i do think we got -- you know, we go to the whole common sense question about, you know, should somebody be able to shoot off 30 rounds in 10 seconds, whatever it is, but we got to have the cultural conversation. we got to have this culture of violence. i think the nra is more likely to come to the table if you have hollywood there, the video gamemakers, and, by th